The Creature List

2007-12-26 [Linn Scarlett]: Urk, I am here, I am here *colapses completely exhausted*

2008-02-01 [xido]: You're doing good, Linn. Stick to your guns, and take care of real life. This is not top priority in your life, unless you want it to be.

With that said, I am hoping to ask a few of you to help me on a project. I want to find which of the creatures on this list are primarily player-oriented (typically humanoids, or similarly 'familiar' creature types). Along with the current WFR char Race list (which can be shifted over here on RPG-specific pages), the CL will be divided through external organization (in a MS Word 2007 document) between player and non-player races. The player-type races will go into a player's guidebook-style publication, while we will get ET permissions to work with the CL as a monster compendium.

Also, has anyone else seen Monstropedia.com ? It looked pretty informative. Perhaps we can benchmark from the successes of their own list. This one is already so unique, because it includes a lot more culture-specific beasties than most other sites (which often focus on the more 'mainstream' creatures of popular fiction).

However: Angel, the Council (now that this page has been quasi-integrated into their own methodology), and [Hedda] need to give their legal permissions before the idea can ever hit publication stage.

In 2008, xidoraven studios is going to try and institute some new contest ideas to help get some cool new artwork and content for the idea. If it goes through well enough, the WFR will have an entirely Elftown-friendly Player's, Storyteller's, and Monsters Core books to supplement players' other gaming systems.

If possible, [Torr-maat] and my studio concept will also be trying to put together a software application that will translate editions of game materials (and hopefully cross-company translations as well). These are long-term goals, so do not feel hasted. This is not imminent.

Neither the Guild nor our studio concept has the money to cover the entrance price Wizards.com set for companies to 'buy in' on the OGL content prior to Jan. 2009 at this time.

d20 is on the way.

Also, Linn: have you been Knighted?
I would like you Knighted by [Blood Raven], if possible.
-will

2008-02-01 [iippo]: It might be useful for you to think in a bit broader terms, xido. Not everyone on ET roleplays, and thus not everyone will want to use this resource for playing. Some might use it for art reference, some for writing, some for whatever other reasons. Making it "player creatures and monster creatures" won't make any sense to anyone who has never RPed, and the list would seem to be leaning a lot towards roleplayers-only. I don't think it's a good idea to alienate the non-RP people. Just something for you to think about.

2008-03-03 [xido]: We're not changing the list, iippo. I am trying to coordinate the content for which publication portion the info goes into. If the creature has four legs, low intelligence and no ability to use weapons, it sure wouldn't make a good race for our Player's Guide.

I think everyone need to stop critiquing my actions, unless you're in on the project. I am really quite tired of explaining myself to everyone who has an opinion.

I understand your concern, but nothing is changing here. I am compiling information because it is the first step in the process.

Maybe if more people tried roleplaying and spent less time criticizing me, they might have an easier time figuring out why I do things that don't make sense to them. In my opinion, it's a much better option than critiquing another person's actions every step of the way. That's called micro-management, and it's irritating to deal with when you're over-seeing a big project like this.

Thanks and best wishes,
-will

2008-03-03 [windowframe]: Xido, don't take the critique personally. And don't assume she doesn't know what she's talking about, either. She may know more than you think she does, and at the end of the day - you're both trying to do the same thing - what you think is best. You should respect that in someone else, and don't get ratty with her just because you happen to have explained something a few times already. If you want to put forward a new and radical idea then you have to be prepared to explain yourself. Repeatedly. And telling people they should try your hobby and then they'd understand you better is also a bad idea. Did you not notice that iippo is running the Champion's Tournament - a role-playing tournament. She's already into RPing. Maybe if you tried looking at it form her perspective you'd understand why she didn't agree with you.

You're just being rude now, Xido, it doesn't become you, and [iippo] didn't deserve it. She certainly wasn't rude to you. :(

2008-03-05 [iippo]: [xido], are you making a list of creatures that is solely for the use of role-players and is in Elftown just for the purpose of you gathering information for some kind of Player's Guide -publication? I thought that this wiki was something much broader back when I first got involved in 2004 (when it still was creature_list). I'm pretty sure Hedda thought so too when he got involved with the whole Creature Marathon Contest -thing, wanting these pages to be made the best in the web about the creatures.

In fact, what it looks like to me is that you took over Angel Dreamer's project and are taking it to wherever you want it to go, which is this roleplaying publication. The original creature_list seems to have nothing to do with roleplaying or WFR or anything like that, so I really don't see why your direction is the right one for the entire wiki and why you feel that you have ownership of it.

In fact I find it morally questionable that you consider making any kind of publication of a wiki that everyone can donate information to without that intent of publication being stated clearly. To me it doesn't sound very far from ripping people off, but maybe you're not explaining it to me very well; I sure hope I have misread your intent.

2008-03-05 [xido]: I am not answering this.

You say I am taking it personally.

iippo: It might be useful for you to think in a bit broader terms, xido.

She questioned the way I think. That is rude. No one knows this. [Hedda] and I are speaking right now. That's all you need to know.

Again, are either one of you in on this project? Stop harrassing me. I am trying to get things done. At my pace.

Try not bringing Angel into this. She is not here to stick up for herself.
-will

2008-03-06 [windowframe]: Stop harassing you? Asking questions is harassing you? Stop being an ass, Xido. So you're frustrated because your project is hard work; don't take it out on us. iippo wasn't attacking Angel Dreamer so she doesn't need to stick up for herself. Do you see everything as a personal assault nowadays? Yeesh. You're so sure that no one knows what's going on. Can you see everything that happens on Elftown? Stop assuming we're bloody stupid already. And actually, people can get an understanding of how you're thinking from what you're saying. Just because you don't like what you're hearing doesn't make it rude.

If there's nothing in what iippo's asking, you could simply have said "no iippo, you misunderstood me, I am not trying to rip people off". Why couldn't you? Because it's true, or because you've started taking things so personally again that it's stopping you communicating?

2008-03-06 [xido]: "No, [iippo] and [windowframe]. You both misunderstand me greatly. There is only one Owner of this page, and it is not me; it is Angel. I am a volunteer, professional, and entrepreneur. Get off my case."

2008-03-06 [Veltzeh]: [xido], if you plan to publish some of this stuff on a medium that is not like this wiki, wouldn't you need permission from everyone who contributed?

2008-03-06 [iippo]:
My question: "are you making a list of creatures that is solely for the use of role-players and is in Elftown just for the purpose of you gathering information for some kind of Player's Guide -publication?"
[xido]'s reply: "I am not answering this."

Err, no. This one you gotta answer, mate. Because if you are planning on doing one thing and the wiki is saying you're doing something else, this we call lying.

She questioned the way I think. That is rude.
No, a comment like "It might be useful for you to think in a bit broader terms" is called constructive criticism.

2008-03-07 [xido]: All talk, and no listening. Typical.

Call me out to be a liar again, [iippo]. See where that gets you.

[Veltzeh]: yes, or maybe - depending on what legal documents are involved. I have a huge job in front of me. Want to help, or start micromanaging me like the others here? My suggestion is to help, or do nothing. Those are my current choices, after all.

Anybody want me to start responding here with MY CRITICISMS, or can we all just go back to business, being people on a silly web site like real adults?

*doesn't actually care what the answers are, since it was rhetorical*
(I call this angry, pissed-off, screw-you, anti-high-horse cynicism. Feel like playing? It's a really fun game for me. I have a high score in real life.)

To answer your question (even though it is not in any way required right now):
NOTHING IS CHANGING ON THIS DAMNED PAGE. IF IT DID, THERE IS THIS WONDERFUL BUTTON CALLED 'EDIT THIS PAGE'. And if, just by chance, I had any intentions of changing it here....


Exactly how many clicks would it take to CHANGE IT BACK? I'm sure you're finger might get tired, but try not to think about it. I know there are lots of other fun comments (my apologies) - constructive criticisms - that you can use to make me - or others - out to be a fool and an ass hole. I'd hate to waste that precious time of yours...

Plus, I just figured I'd beat you to it.

Anthing else you'd like to discuss on this page?

2008-03-07 [xido]: For the record, aboleth is a D&D-publication-specific creature that is clearly a monster, and not a playable humanoid or neo-player-esque beastie. It can be found in the Monsters Manual, on D&D Wiki (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Aboleth), as well as outlined in its entirety in 'Lords of Madness', an excellent supplement for information.

A brownie, on the other hand, has many various pasts, including one in 2nd edition D&D, before Hasbro Inc. ever owned the name/rights, and is a very pleasurably suitable player-worthy beastie. It can be found in the AD&D Monster Manual, websites, and great texts on mythological creatures.

Look, productivity! Concept!

2008-03-07 [xido]: And...  YES, we STILL have pages here with little to no extra information, origins, references, or conjecture on creature-related topics ABOUNDING across the genres and media.

Ask me why the Mods at D&D Wiki don't want to come here and get involved. Dare ya. (http://www.dandwiki.com)

And I don't even pay them yet. They haven't paid me either.

Imagine that. What word in the English language - I think it begins with a 'v' - defines that concept? I do know that it's not "contract worker", "lackey", "dickwad", or "venereal disease", but my memory isn't all that great these days.

2008-03-07 [xido]: Angel:

If you ever do get time to read these wonderful words, please summon some of those demons that you encountered in the Abyss so that someone here will stop complaining and get their asses to work again. I would most appreciate that.

Thanks for hosting our wonderful fun on your awe-inspiring page. I am oh-so glad to be involved, my darling.
-william, Madraven who thinks your badges can shove it

2008-03-07 [windowframe]: You want the artists on the site to provide art for your project, and this is how you treat them? It's you who can shove it xido.

2008-03-07 [xido]: Tell me once more how this page came to be an official Council page, and how the ECM is not a by-product of the contributions of ET Members that you rely upon for the work here to get done (so you don't have to do it).... ??

In case you didn't notice, y'all better check your ethics books, because this whole shit fit started because no one wanted to admit that I already answered your questions from the get-go:
"Along with the current WFR char Race list (which can be shifted over here on RPG-specific pages), the CL will be divided through external organization (in a MS Word 2007 document) between player and non-player races. The player-type races will go into a player's guidebook-style publication, while we will get ET permissions to work with the CL as a monster compendium."

Could've avoided a whole lot of disappointment with just a little more reading.

2008-03-07 [windowframe]: So a page has to be official for me to comment on it now, just because I happen to be council? What kind of warped logic is that. And before you start with a rant about how the ECM is there so I don't have to work, have a think about who's helping in running the damn thing, and maybe consider the fact that I, and other council members also entered the contest. Holy shit, that means we contributed, right? That means we did work, right?

2008-03-07 [xido]: No, but I find it amusing that when I do it, I am over-running everything. When y'all do it, it gives you the right to push around others who are actually putting in the extra years (not moments) of their life for "your" pages.

You see, I am Elftown too.

2008-03-07 [windowframe]: We don't push people around, Xido. You just see it that way because you don't like it when you don't get your own way.
And you're not Elftown, you're a member, you're a small, tiny part, yes, but you're not Elftown.

2008-03-07 [Veltzeh]: "Along with the current WFR char Race list (which can be shifted over here on RPG-specific pages), the CL will be divided through external organization (in a MS Word 2007 document) between player and non-player races. The player-type races will go into a player's guidebook-style publication, while we will get ET permissions to work with the CL as a monster compendium."
It's very hard to figure out what exactly this means. This is how I decoded the text: If you declare some "race" playable, you'll just take its description/pictures without asking. And if you declare it as a "monster", you will ask for permission. (The player-type races will go into a player's guidebook-style publication, while we will get ET permissions to work with the CL as a monster compendium.) But what is an "ET permission"? Did you mean "permission from Elftown"? What/who would "Elftown" represent in that context? Also, the text implies that you will also make these changes to the actual list after having divided the races externally (Along with the current WFR char Race list (which can be shifted over here on RPG-specific pages), the CL will be divided through external organization (in a MS Word 2007 document) between player and non-player races.).
Now, I KNOW you apparently don't mean that by now, but your text just says something different! :/ How can I know what I should believe?